Aminet 15/Aminet 15 - Nov 1996.iso/Aminet/docs/hyper/ZCD.lha/Listino/Reviews/SAAR_AMOK_II.txt

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Path: news.uh.edu!barrett
From: [e-mail] (Markus Illenseer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.reviews
Subject: REVIEW: SAAR & AMOK CD-ROM, Volume II
Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga.misc
Date: 10 Nov 1994 17:47:27 GMT
Organization: The Amiga Online Review Column - ed. Daniel Barrett
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Reply-To: [e-mail] (Markus Illenseer)
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Keywords: CD-ROM, collection, programming, freeware, shareware, commercial
Originator: [e-mail]


PRODUCT NAME

    SAAR & AMOK CD-ROM, Volume II


BRIEF DESCRIPTION

    This CD-ROM contains the complete (German) SAAR-AG and AMOK PD
series which covers freely distributable programms, pictures, text
files and so forth. The entire CD is directed to the German speakers
among you.


AUTHOR/COMPANY INFORMATION

    Compilation License

        S.A.U.G. e.V.

    Manufacturer

        Kreativ Marketing


DISTRIBUTION

    Main places to buy the CD-ROM currently are:

    Germany:

        Stefan Ossowski Schatztruhe
        Gesellschaft f|r Software mbH
        Veronikastra_e 33
        45131 Essen
        Germany

        Fon: [phone]
        Fax: [phone]

    and

        Saarbr|ckener Amiga User Group e.V. (S.A.U.G.)
        c/o Martin Schulze
        Parkstr. 14
        66806 Ensdorf
        GERMANY

        Fon: [phone]
        BBS: [phone]

    other dealers will follow.

    You can also try to command the CD in your local book store:
    ISBN 3-86084-240-4


LIST PRICE

    Suggested retail price is DM 39,90; approximately $27 (US).
    Street price varies in a wide range, please compare.


SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS

    HARDWARE

        Any Amiga equipped with a CD-ROM drive such as A570, A1270,
        CDTV, CD32 or any supported third party CD-ROM drive.

        512KB of RAM required.  2MB or more recommended, with
        5-8MB best.

        As some of the software package are intended to be copied or
        installed to hard disk if used more than once in your
        lifetime, you would be in need of a hard drive.

    SOFTWARE

        AmigaDOS WB 1.3 or higher required.
        Works fine with AmigaDOS 2.x.
        AmigaDOS 3.1 is highly recommended.

        Requires a suitable CD-ROM filesystem such as Asimware,
        AmiCDFS, Babel CDFS, Xetec CDFS or the Commodore CDFS of
        AmigaDOS 3.x.  AmiCDFS can be found on the CD itself.


COPY PROTECTION

    None.


MACHINE USED FOR TESTING

    Amiga 3000, 2 MB Chip RAM, 12 MB Fast RAM
    Several hard drives
    Apple CD300 CD-ROM drive (same as Sony CDU-8003A)
    AmigaDOS 3.1 (Kickstart 40.68, Workbench 40.35)
    AmiCDFS Version 1.14


REVIEW

    In a general overview, I would like to explain the why, what and
wherefrom of this CD-ROM.  I then will review the installation and the
compilation of the CD.


GENERAL

    Well yes, I am back. Another CD, another review, another
critical test.  This time I was bribed.  I got a free CD from the
SAAR-AG club and was asked to write a review.  Here it is.  Looks like
UseNet makes names famous. Let me use my text tool construction kit
for CD-ROM reviews. :-)

    The name of the CD is composed with the names of the two of the
biggest and most active Amiga clubs or groups in Germany:  S.A.U.G. e.V.
and AMOK.  Both have different goals but share the interest of
distributing their material to the interested public.  Together they make
available a large found of software.

    SAAR-AG, Saarbr|ckener Amiga User Group .e.V. (SAUG for short), was
founded by Gerhard Seitz in 1989, and is the successor of several smaller
groups.  The SAAR-AG group distributes a floppy disk based PD and FD series
that, in contrast to other series, contains mainly German material for
those souls who speak little or no English.  Over the years, they assembled
800 disks full of Amiga programs on all topics and applications.

    AMOK, Amiga Modula and Oberon Klub, is directing their series to
Modula II and Oberon users and (of course) programmers.  The history of the
AMOK people is not explained on the CD, and I know only a little of the
background of this club.  What I do know is that some of the important
people in the Modula and Oberon Scene are involved.  Guys like Friedjof
Siebert (programmer of the Oberon Compiler, one of the best Oberon Compiler
available outside the world of the Oberon Machines at ETH Zuerich), Hartmut
Goebel, Kay Bloay and maybe Claudio Nieder do contribute some of their
programs to the AMOK series.

    AMOK has a very strict, fixed guidelines for all contributions to
their series.  All programs must be made available with source or at least
link modules, must be Style Guide compliant, and must have good
documentation.  (Whether all submissions actually stick to those guidelines
is another story). For Modula II and Oberon Fans, this disc is a must.


BACKGROUND ABOUT PRICE

    The manufacturer is claimed to be 'Kreative Marketing'.  In fact,
this is still the 'Schatztruhe GmbH' who also produced 'Meeting Pearls',
'Aminet 3', 'Aminet 4' and other Amiga-only CD-ROMs.  You might know that
the other CD-ROMs are available for a low price - about DM19.80 ($US 13).
The SAAR-AMOK CD is made available for DM 39.90 ($US 27), which in my
opinion is a high price.  The 'Schatztruhe GmbH' somehow seems not to be
happy about this price, too, and decided to release the CD under another
name.

    I really wonder what the SAAR-AG and AMOK Klub are doing with the
money they earn.  It is quite a lot, and they don't say a word about this.


SAAR AMOK CD Vol II

    This CD is a compilation of two floppy based series.  All original
floppy disks are on this CD.  I cannot check whether the original content of
the disks is also on the CD, but I doubt it.

    Every floppy disk is made available on the CD in archived form
(lha archives), and some of them in unarchived form (normal directory
structure of the disks).

    The CD contains disks 1-800 of SaarAG and disks 1-106 in archived
form, and disks 601-800 of SaarAG and disks 91-106 of AMOK in unarchived
form.  This makes a total of 420 MB of archived and 200 MB of unarchived
material.

    The CD was mastered in the ISO 9660 Mode 2 format with Commodore
extensions.  I couldn't locate any directory level deeper than 4 or 5, so
the CD is ISO-compliant and will work with almost every ISO filesystem, even
on UNIX or a PC.  The CD was tested and been declared usable under
NetBSD-Amiga on the above described system; normal users can fully access
the CD, unlike 'AmiNet 3' for example.

    The CD has not been tested on a PC clone system.  I doubt that the CD
will work correctly there.  There are too many files on the CD whose names
are longer than the allowed "8.3" filename scheme.

    During the making of the CD, due to a missing 'feature' of the
ISO-9660 filesystem used on every better CD-ROM, the typical Amiga
protection flags are gone.  The only (supplied) way to resurrect these flags
is using the supplied lha archives in the BBS directory.  This applies to
flags like Script, Archive, Execute and also Filenotes.  This makes it
impossible to run shell scripts directly from the CD if they make use of
the S (Script) bit.  Fortunately, there are not many tools on the CD
depending on this.

    Technical note:  It *is* possible to store the missing flags and
filenotes; ISO-9660 and Rockridge Extension do support this.  Both the ISO
image during creation of CD and the CDFS to mount the CD, however, also have
to support that extension.


INSTALLATION

    There is no installation required nor provided.  Some programs on the
CD do require a special environment though, and it is up to the user of the
CD to set up the required Assigns and expand the search Path.


USAGE

    What to do with such immense source of programs, goodies, tools,
pictures, sounds, texts and source code?

    I was asked not to use the sentence 'Yet another boring archive
CD' - hum, ok, I'll try :-)

    Yet another floppy disks based series on CD. A 'Frozen Fish' clone.
Great source code collection. Cheap and well sorted backup media - move your
fantasies on CD.

    Indeed, the purpose of an archive CD is limited. It can be seen as a
large and useful backup medium, or as useless, hopelessly outdated trashcan.
Your mileage may vary.  For many among you, dear readers, this CD is probably
a nice chance to get never-seen material.

    One could just browse through the entire stuff - a man-life of
work - and get lost in the depth of icons, directories and documentation.

    One could search for specific stuff.  For that purpose, four methods
are provided.  Let me mention right here that all supplied databases for
described search tools only do cover the SAAR-AG series.  AMOK has not
supplied any tool to search data - or at least I couldn't locate any.

    The first search tool is KingFisher.  This program is a big one; the
entire library has been catalogued, classified and merged together in this
database program.  'Unfortunately' the supplied version is quite old, and
supplied databases are not in the new format; thus, the new, more powerful
KingFisher cannot be used instead.  Nonetheless, KingFisher was very
suitable for my searches - I even found out that some of my very old
programs are on the CD.  The database covers only the archived part of the
CD, but it is very easy to find the same stuff in the non-archived part of
it.

    The second search tool is 'SaarCat' (in fact 'FishCat') - I
was not able to search for specific programs. SaarCat only allowed me
to search for disks and then see the contents of the disks. No idea if
this is my fault or a faulty installation on the CD.

    The third search tool is 'MegaFish'. It crashed my machine
immediately (and reproducibly) when I ran it. I have no idea why. It is left
to the author to fix this problem.  (After some chats, I found out that the
tool opens in an AGA screenmode which is of course nonexistent on my A3000.)

    Last but not least, you can browse through the contents files using
your favorite editor, viewer or search tool.

    A very useful thing for CD32 and CDTV users is the 'Tools' directory
on the CD, which holds archives of most recent tools like 'compress', 'lha',
'DMS' and 'Installer'.  The corresponding binaries can be found in the C:
directory on the CD.  A possible drawback is that ParNet or other 'network'
tools are not provided. At least not pre-installed.

    The unarchived part of the CD contains most of the stuff assembled
in the way the original floppy disks contained the packages.  This is even
the way the authors or submitters send the material to the clubs.

    I can't review the material on the CD - it's hopelessly large. Just
let's say: too much stuff on it. :-)

    The stuff is well chosen, contains a minor set of AmiNet goodies, and
has also material which never made its way to the Internet.  This does not
mean that the material is useless!


LIKES AND DISLIKES

    I like that all supplied text files had an Icon and that the default
tool uses 'Sys:utitities/more' instead of a stupid or useless text viewer.
You can use the (supplied) ToolAlias to select your favorite text viewer.

    I don't claim to be a Workbench user, as I barely use it, but I
don't like the look of the CD on the Workbench.  Sometimes the windows open
at random positions - even those snapshotted by the manufacturer of the CD,
and not by the submitters of the material.  Icons look fancy, shiny or are
unusable.  But then I must admit that this is the way the material was
submitted by the authors and it never was an intention of the makers of the
CD to change any material.  So I must blame the authors.  *BLAME* :-)

    I like the general compilation.  Although I have no personal use for
the CD, I am sure that many peoples will like the archive. It has much
material for programmers of Oberon and Modula II and many uncommon tools.

    Unfortunately, the CD contains outdated material.  This is life.
Everything changes.  Some of the material is timeless and can't be found
elsewhere, other stuff has never been updated since, whereas other stuff is
so alive it can't be kept updated at all.

    I totally disagree with the idea to distribute the CD only in the
German-speaking area of the world.  NO text on the CD which is important to
use the CD - installation, explanations, contents of the disks - has been
translated into any other language.  Major drawback in my eyes.

    I am not that comfortable with the price, but I like that it is
lower than other - mostly more useless and less interesting - archive CDs.
If you are author of any material on the CD, you will get a special price -
you have to ask for it yourself though (no, not me, the SAAR-AG group).

    Being an 'archive CD', a very important matter is missing:  BBS.txt.
It is not possible to use the CD on a BBS to make material available in a
pre-installed way.  Quite a lot of work to do so.  Only submitted tool to
help you is 'GetCDFile'.

    Another topic is 'copyright' and 'disclaimer'.  This topic has been
discussed for years on UseNet now and still seems not to be credited in the
right way.  I found at least one archive which should not be on the CD, the
permission was only granted for the floppy based series and it is explicitly
mentioned that the archived should under no circumstanced be distributed on
CD-ROMs.


COMPARISON TO OTHER SIMILAR PRODUCTS

    There are quite a lot of other CDs to compare SAAR-AG + AMOK CD with.
First of all, I must compare this release with the first release:  Quality
has increased.  Price has been dropped, outfit has been facelifted.

    The other disk based CD archive is 'Frozen Fish', (or 'Gold Fish')
from Fred Fish.  Both CD's share quite a lot of material, but the history is
different, and Fred had more time to establish his position.  Saar-AG though,
is - in Germany - the successor of the 'Fred Fish' disks since Fred dropped
his (floppy disks based) series.  Both series are/were somehow dependent on
material found on world wide AmiNet.  Due to the lack of English texts on
the Saar-AG CD, the CD is somehow fixed on German speakers among the
readers.  Of course you can work with the CD without speaking German - just
you won't understand the supplied contents files.  This is a plus of Fred
Fish's series.  The minus of his series is the higher price.

    As the last several hundred Fred Fish Amiga Lib Disks and also the
last hundreds Saar-AG Disks were sometimes a subset of material found on the
AmiNet (world wide Internet Library for Amiga), I should compare the CD with
the existing AmiNet-CDs, but I think this would yield into some sort of
religious argument that is not the object of this review.

    (A careful reader of my reviews will see similarities in the above
text parts, and will hence know that I always try to write critical but fair
reviews....)


CONCLUSIONS

    The CD is for every Amiga User.  I don't admit it is a 'must' - this
is reserved for Oberon and Modula freaks and of course to the German readers
(not everyone speaks and reads English... but, hm, I guess then he won't even
be able to read my review :-)) among you.

    Either for personal use, for shared use with friends, to be
made available on BBS or via FTP - this archive will fit into your
needs.

    A reliable product, which is quite usuable.  I'd rate it 3.75 out of
5 stars.  The last quarter star can be achieved if the CD becomes cheaper -
but this is up to you.  Support the makers of Amiga specific CDs and make it
possible to issue large amounts of CDs.  The higher the amount, the lower
the price!

    The other full star is a *MUST* in my eyes:  translate important
information texts into English!  Not even the cover of the CD contains
English or may be even Spanish or French texts.  This makes the CD difficult
to use for our world wide friends.  A shame in the times of EU and world
wide networks.

    You may wonder why this costed the CD a full star - I fought hard
with myselfon this, but I cannot be asked to write a review on the
international UseNet (hence English) for a German CD even though the CD
contains lot of very useful and nicely arranged material. But even if I
would have published a review of this CD in a German Amiga Magazine I
certainly would have been bothered about this fact.


COPYRIGHT NOTICE

    This review represents my honest opinion - your mileage may vary.
If you use this review in any way, such as re-publishing it, the author
requests at least a copy of the used media.  Special thanks to disk magazine
'Amiga Gadget' who did so in the past.

    Copyright 1994 Markus Illenseer.  All rights reserved.

    You can contact the author at:

        Markus Illenseer
        Kurt Schumacherstr. 16
        33613 Bielefeld
        GERMANY

        [e-mail]

---

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